tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post7102130623556399282..comments2024-03-26T09:32:26.565-05:00Comments on Sherlock Peoria: Doyle and the Elementary neophyte.Sherlock Peoriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09896656391037436805noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-48427733455521278642013-09-10T05:11:34.850-05:002013-09-10T05:11:34.850-05:00There is a reason why the Basil Rathbone fanbase i...There is a reason why the Basil Rathbone fanbase is split. Some only like the first two movies, which were still set in the right era and true to canon. Other accept the later movies, but the opinion about them vary. Let me tell you that the three in which he fights Nazi tend to be NOT on the top of the list of the best Basil Rathbone movies, for a very good reason. Plus, this was in the 1940s, the audience had a different standard. We expect more by now. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-55899918384260090042013-09-10T05:05:56.578-05:002013-09-10T05:05:56.578-05:00I think I have seen around ten articles which argu...I think I have seen around ten articles which argue that Elementary is good because it supposedly promotes gender equality (with one female in an all male cast?) and doesn't have the racism fail "Sherlock" supposedly has (I guess I dreamt the awful Asian sex-slave episode). Especially people who think that Elementary is "better" like to argue based on those aspects.<br /><br />And as a female, I find it highly offensive that a female Watson isn't allowed to be an army doctor, that she basically screwed up her own life and that it is somehow okay when Holmes wrecks her car or makes deductions about her vagina. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-57706062069138309652013-09-10T01:07:54.629-05:002013-09-10T01:07:54.629-05:00Thank you, Anonymous. I don't get it either.
...Thank you, Anonymous. I don't get it either. <br /><br />I mean there was a general outcry by a big portion of the Star Trek fandom joined by a lot of social justice bloggers because Khan was played by a white guy when he's apparently supposed to be Indian. But the other way round, if a male white role is turned into a female Asian it's suddenly a great step forward? <br /><br />I'm not saying that there shouldn't be as much diversity in casting as makes sense given the percentages in actual population, but I personally like the classics staying as they are. <br /><br />Also, how is Watson changed into a failed female surgeon who is dependent on SH for her very room and board a success for feminism?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04066417080920042579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-3094534674269393152013-09-09T21:29:07.661-05:002013-09-09T21:29:07.661-05:00Bravo for the comment Silke. Also I want to add th...Bravo for the comment Silke. Also I want to add that as a Asian woman I find the idea of Lucy Liu playing Dr. Watson highly offensive. Its like someone hiring a white men to play Confucius. I think both instances are insulting to the characters. Also I don't see any resemblance at all between Lucy Liu and the Dr. Watson I know of in Doyle's original stories with gender and race being the least of their differences. Returning to the race issues, I want to say that I don't understand why CBS thinks that changing the race and sex of the character automatically make their story good and innovative. Does turning Elizabeth from Pride and Prejudice into a black man automatically make that adaption "very high quality, very well acted and produced, and innovative" adaptation? I would like someone to explain why CBS had to change the race and gender of Dr. Watson instead of leaving it as it is cause I just don't get it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-82200317677569013962013-09-09T21:12:08.777-05:002013-09-09T21:12:08.777-05:00I am a 24 year old woman who does not see how it i...I am a 24 year old woman who does not see how it is being a Elite Devotee if you want people viewing a so called "Sherlock Holmes" show to turn to the original canon. I didn't read the canon either until BBC Sherlock and decided to read further on this interesting duo. I don't know what CBS will be sacrificing by turning out a more faithful version of the canon on their cable network? Lawsuit or political incorrectness or just their fear of not being able to twist canon to fit their own needs? Also if you are being snobby for wanting people watching a show to turn to the original written material then I fear for the future of literacy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-4685076158234704172013-09-09T12:32:57.213-05:002013-09-09T12:32:57.213-05:00You're not getting out much, are you?
This is...You're not getting out much, are you?<br /><br />This is just ONE of many articles on the subject:<br /><br />http://nerdophiles.com/2013/07/05/why-even-as-bbc-sherlock-fans-elementary-has-become-our-favorite/<br /><br />I don't doubt your background knowledge on Sherlockiana as of ye olden days - but you're clearly not up to date with developments in TV fandom.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04066417080920042579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-25320124502882156282013-09-09T10:03:20.516-05:002013-09-09T10:03:20.516-05:00All well said Bill.All well said Bill.JohnFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13294886206454693626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-39894120170413627832013-09-09T08:40:16.548-05:002013-09-09T08:40:16.548-05:00Silke, no one has "praised" Elementary f...Silke, no one has "praised" Elementary for "political correctness." Where did you get such an idea? That is a laughable reach. <br /><br />I just like "Elementary" for what it is, an entertaining show with a new twist on Sherlock Holmes. And I think anyone with any history whatsoever in the Sherlockian world will be happy to vouch for my "background knowledge" over yours any day of the week.<br /><br />And I repeat that your blanket statement about the political views of "most E-fans" is absolute nonsense that you have no way of knowing. By all means, criticize the program on its merits; that's the fun of the Sherlockian world. But trying to make some kind of judgment about the political views of a few million viewer makes you look very foolish. And it is indeed nonsense.Bill Masonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-5933326239809038962013-09-09T07:11:29.825-05:002013-09-09T07:11:29.825-05:00"Oddly, you seem to revel in that misery that..."Oddly, you seem to revel in that misery that "Elementary" brings you. Maybe contemplating a damaged and ordinary Sherlock Holmes television program makes you feel superior?"<br /><br />You make no sense. If Brad would be made feeling superior by watching Elementary, why would that make him miserable? With me feelings of superiority are mostly happy ones. Quite happy at the moment, btw.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04066417080920042579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-32562426372926555732013-09-09T07:08:28.801-05:002013-09-09T07:08:28.801-05:00Well said, anonymouse! Watson was the great man...Well said, anonymouse! Watson was the great man's friend and biographer, not his apprentice and/or competitor. I don't think they ever contemplated a "Holmes & Watson PIs, Inc.", a direction in which Elementary seems to stumble.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04066417080920042579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-28135884116178519362013-09-09T06:53:21.146-05:002013-09-09T06:53:21.146-05:00Quite an imagination you've got there! I can s...Quite an imagination you've got there! I can see how it would enhance the Elementary viewing experience. I'd say more, but it takes time to put on this Pagliacci make-up every morning.Sherlock Peoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09896656391037436805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-2769202725769854662013-09-09T06:49:51.713-05:002013-09-09T06:49:51.713-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sherlock Peoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09896656391037436805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-59254686783028528712013-09-09T06:49:42.258-05:002013-09-09T06:49:42.258-05:00It's fine if they keep to their DVD box set an...It's fine if they keep to their DVD box set and never read the Canon. They might have problems relating to the folks at a regular scion society meeting if they don't speak Doyle, though. I'm trying to see things from their POV, though, so watch the profanities! (Those E.D. words, of course!)Sherlock Peoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09896656391037436805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-31477025769602042512013-09-09T05:10:05.547-05:002013-09-09T05:10:05.547-05:00You mean like making a hint to the Problem of Thor...You mean like making a hint to the Problem of Thor Bridge in connection to a visit to a crypt when there isn't a crypt anywhere in the story? The Elementary writers don't even get their references right! (the visit to the crypt happens, but in the Shoscombe Old Place). <br />In a way, Lucy Liu is as far removed from Watson as Nigel Bruce is. He was always way too stupid for the character. She errs in the other direction. The point of Watson was never that he could keep up with Holmes deductions, as a stand-in for the reader he was supposed to have a "normal" intelligence, while Sherlock was the genius. Watson had other qualities which made him an equal to Holmes. Like his ability to deal with dangerous situations due to his past in the army. Which is exactly the aspect the removed in Elementary. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-53681930874903473622013-09-09T04:07:42.836-05:002013-09-09T04:07:42.836-05:00With all due respect, it is not. I doubt your back...With all due respect, it is not. I doubt your background knowledge on this matter. <br /><br />For years there has been a very vocal minority accusing Steven Moffat and his shows of misogyny, racism, ageism and any other -ism under the sun. And when CBS decided to do their very own updated Sherlock Holmes show they did their research. <br /><br />They could not very well actually copy Sherlock's format, although I don't think they were too afraid of Hartwoods' threats of a law suit. But it wouldn't have gone over well with the fans. <br /><br />In developing Elementary they ticked practically every item on that aforementioned minority's checklist: no misogyny - Watson is a woman, no racism - Watson is Asian, lots of gender and race diversity - Det. Ball and Sherlock's sober sponsor are African American, Mrs Hudson is transsexual, Moriarty is female etc. <br /><br />Do you honestly think that's a coincidence? Now, I don't say that's a bad thing at all, but I do stipulate that it's just superficial because it's just a marketing device and has nothing whatsoever to do with CBS' or its executives' creeds, as nothing in their vitae shows any engagement in that direction before Elementary.<br /><br />So, with all due respect, praising Elementary for all its adherence to political correctness is like buying organic food from Monsanto.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04066417080920042579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-78315908909931019812013-09-08T16:25:03.057-05:002013-09-08T16:25:03.057-05:00How many who saw the Universal film version of Hol...How many who saw the Universal film version of Holmes with Basil Rathbone fighting Nazis bothered to go back to ACD? Some did but many did not. Is that then a reason to dislike any film or TV version? Unless the director goes for complete Canonical fidelity, as in the early Granada series, there will be a gap. Take any novel or comic hero and compare it to the film version. We can only hope that some find there way to the actual words printed (or I guess electrons). But in keeping with the big tent and trying not to be a elite devotee, it is ok if they only know the screen version. Richard Sveumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14682153810620384840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-74076148426103409132013-09-08T13:43:01.680-05:002013-09-08T13:43:01.680-05:00Well said, personally I hope that Elementary will ...Well said, personally I hope that Elementary will go off the air SOON! After it disappears perhaps they can make room for a more faithful adaption to the original canon with male Holmes and Watson in London!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-19985233239945867722013-09-08T11:25:31.916-05:002013-09-08T11:25:31.916-05:00Whenever you wax intellectual on "Elementary&...Whenever you wax intellectual on "Elementary", I am always reminded of those melancholy moments Holmes has in the Canon and image how he would view you: "God help us!" said Holmes, after a long silence. "Why does Fate play such tricks with poor helpless worms? I never hear of such a case as this that I do not think of Baxter's words, and say: There, but for the grace of God, goes Sherlock Holmes." Your hate--and that is your word, the word you use most often when describing your "feels' on "Elementary"--is best summed: "Pathetic and futile. But is not all life pathetic and futile? Is not his story a microcosm of the whole? We reach. We grasp. And what is left in our hands at the end? A shadow. Or worse than a shadow - misery." Oddly, you seem to revel in that misery that "Elementary" brings you. Maybe contemplating a damaged and ordinary Sherlock Holmes television program makes you feel superior? Those who know you see that sharp humor. I see the tears of a clown.James C. O'Learyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13866010043246236340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-40472284864593048462013-09-08T11:16:25.331-05:002013-09-08T11:16:25.331-05:00What's really scary is that my full initials a...What's really scary is that my full initials are...JLM...<br /><br />(Thanks for letting me plagiarize...er..."quote" you.)Jacquelynn Morris, ASH, BSIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14119508492879867877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-16736285972895496362013-09-08T11:14:53.281-05:002013-09-08T11:14:53.281-05:00Silke, with all due respect, that is simply nonsen...Silke, with all due respect, that is simply nonsense. I have no clue, and doubt if you do, what the "political agenda" of "most E-fans" might be. You have, however, given a broad hint about your own. My agenda is to enjoy an really good television series with a new interpretation of Holmes, thank you very much. <br /><br />As for Brad's point, I have no qualms about recommending the canon to fellow Elementary fans. For all the complaining about it, there are plenty of canonical references in "Elementary," and it has done quite a job of taking a given canonical reference and taking off in a novel direction. It appears to me, from what I have seen, that Season 2 will have even more examples of this. And I am very pleased with a real television series, with 23 to 24 episodes a season, developing Holmes and Watson as well and as interestingly as they have.<br /><br />Lucy Liu is simply great as Watson, has captured the essence of the relationship very well, and promises. In fact, as I have stated elsewhere, in my view the Watson are the very best elements of all three modern media incarnations of our heroes. <br /><br />I am looking forward to another season of this very high quality, very well acted and produced, and innovatively written Sherlock Holmes series.Bill Masonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-48852778018701619872013-09-08T10:11:55.735-05:002013-09-08T10:11:55.735-05:00Feel free, JM. Wait a minute . . . those initials ...Feel free, JM. Wait a minute . . . those initials . . . why didn't I see this before? Elementary was warning us!Sherlock Peoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09896656391037436805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-76422674536998292882013-09-08T08:57:35.306-05:002013-09-08T08:57:35.306-05:00Brilliant. May I use some of this (credited, of co...Brilliant. May I use some of this (credited, of course) in an upcoming presentation I'm giving in November?Jacquelynn Morris, ASH, BSIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14119508492879867877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6512050174377678428.post-52601703697781767112013-09-08T04:29:28.077-05:002013-09-08T04:29:28.077-05:00I think most E-fans with no previous knowledge of ...I think most E-fans with no previous knowledge of the canon must feel like strangers in a strange land and will most likely go, "WTF?!?" <br /><br />But, truth be told, I don't think that this show does for the canon what 'Sherlock' did, namely send its fans back to the roots. <br /><br />Most E-fans seem to care more about having a show that panders to their political agendas than for canonicity. For them the canon-relationship between Holmes & Watson isn't half as important than the fact that one of the leads is now female and equal to Holmes (or even slightly superior). Because, of course, that's what world literature should be about: catering to our contemporary sensibilities.... (NOT).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04066417080920042579noreply@blogger.com